jackson6745

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Let's Discuss the Nutrient Balance

We hear this term being brought up all the time "Nutrient Balance". This is a broad topic with many variables to consider. Listing all the combinations of import and export would be like listing the possible combinations to a gym lock. The bottom line is that through any method of import/export we choose, the goal for most seems to keep a well fed reef, that doesn't have extraordinarily high nitrates and phosphates. Yes, I know they are exceptions, and they're welcome to post here so we may learn from them.
IME, the more you can feed while maintaining a "clean" tank, the better your colors can be. Of course lighting will play a huge roll, calcification maintenance and stability, and other additives for tweaking colors etc. In general, higher nutrient reefs have darker colors, and low nutrient reefs have lighter colors. Which is better/more healthy? I don't have an answer backed by science, but let me share my experiences. Some of these pics are old so excuse the quality :) These are some of my previous and current reefs.

I encourage you to share your thoughts/experiences, but please post pics if possible. Colors can be somewhat subjective depending on what the person has seen in comparison.


Here is a prime example of a ULN reef (My old solana). These corals were under 250w halide, then I switched to T5's. The corals did well for the most part in this reef, colors were pastel, polyp extension mediocre, growth was medium-fast. Nirates usually 0 or extremely low, po4 always undetectable on Salifert. At times I became so busy working that I hardly fed this reef, and colors suffered. Sometimes I would use oyster feast but it was not enough. If I had to choose between a filthy dirty reef or a somewhat starved reef, I would choose the latter?? but IMO neither are optimal.

I liked the nutrient balance at this stage although still starved IMO


As the tank progressed things became more starved looking. Color were there but very faded. Some guys strive for this kind of look though.




Here is the MSHUR red table that became so popular on this forum. This coral is usually a deep red color, but you can see what effect a lack of nutrient will do.



Here is an older 24g reef using MH lighting. A little more nutrient in this one than the solana. I fed daily on this one usually, and usually had a small amount of detectable nitrates.

old 24 gallon by rich.colombo, on Flickr

And here's an even older 120 reef that was kept low nutrient with little nitrate and low po4. This tank was fed a good amount to keep the fish healthy.




My current tank is an example of reef that is not ULN, I don't even consider it low nutrient. My nitrates are usually around 20ppm, po4 remains pretty low though .04 using hanna low range. These levels are kept while feeding about 8 cubes of mysis daily, along with flake and pellets, and reef frenzy. This balance has given me some of the best colors to date. I have chosen to stay on this side of the nutrient balance because of the colors and extremely fast growth that I am getting. polyp extension has been insane, and I would consider health superior to my previous systems since I haven't had any SPS coral losses.

Photo came out blue
DSC_0048 by rich.colombo, on Flickr

Top down (current pic), more accurate example of colors. No photoshop enhancing. This is what the MSHUR table supposed to look like.
Yes, that's the same strand of coral as the table in my old solana pictured above.
IMG_1159 by rich.colombo, on Flickr


At the moment I will continue to avoid getting all zeros on my test kits :)
This balance might not be feasible for those of you with smaller reefs, reefs lacking export, or maybe owners with little time etc.. Whatever your balance is, I'm interested in hearing and seeing!
 
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ssdawood

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Jackson if I gave you a new tank will you be able to replicate this. I am only asking because I am wondering if this type of nutrient balance can be achieved again and again.

What if I gave you control of my tank can you achieve this nutrient balance in it. Say over month two or six months.

Have you mastered this type of nutrient balance?
 

duke62

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This is a incredible thread. Been up all day and 4 posts. Sad :( anyway I'm always trying to achieve the perfect nutrient balance. Some weeks I'm right on then for some reason either to much skimming or I added to little or to much rowa and I'm trying all over again. I try and go for no3 at.05 to .10 and po4 around 4 to 6 but I can never keep it where I want it. Right now I'm low on both parameters and I'm trying to feed heavy again. Jackson if you got a secret to keeping this balance please share because my chalices right now are getting real pale but acros look great :)
 

Mattl22

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Ssdawood very good question !!!

My first 75 gal tank I did great with sps now on my 220 which I'm doing everything I can and sps suck the big one but Ido believe that sps keeping like anything else certain individuals have a talent for and Jackson is one of them for sure
 

vio

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Wow, finally i find the MOST interesting post in years, this will cover very large subject , include how u control (Nitrate,PO4) what to feed or NOT, like u said , let said the Light , is NOT the major issue , so NO discussion about MH, T5 ,LEDs will make this post very, very interesting, list i hope,

Following.
 

jackson6745

SPS KILLER
Location
NJ
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201   2   0
Jackson if I gave you a new tank will you be able to replicate this. I am only asking because I am wondering if this type of nutrient balance can be achieved again and again.

What if I gave you control of my tank can you achieve this nutrient balance in it. Say over month two or six months.

Have you mastered this type of nutrient balance?

Yes I can achieve similar balances over an over again. Probably would take a few months because fish stocking is likely involved if I need nutrient. This can be manipulated with blue bottle additives but that's not my cup of tea.
The low nutrient balance is more difficult IME. Strip your water too much and bleach (not to be confused with RTN/STN), or actually kill coral. When going on the higher end of the balance, the danger IME is colors that get too dark or brown and slow growth. Both can be easily fixed by a variety of methods.
 
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jackson6745

SPS KILLER
Location
NJ
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201   2   0
This is a incredible thread. Been up all day and 4 posts. Sad :( anyway I'm always trying to achieve the perfect nutrient balance. Some weeks I'm right on then for some reason either to much skimming or I added to little or to much rowa and I'm trying all over again. I try and go for no3 at.05 to .10 and po4 around 4 to 6 but I can never keep it where I want it. Right now I'm low on both parameters and I'm trying to feed heavy again. Jackson if you got a secret to keeping this balance please share because my chalices right now are getting real pale but acros look great :)


A "secret" lol no not really. I can tell you from experience that using GFO complicates things. GFO when overdosed wrecks your SPS. IMO the negative effects are not only from the stripping of po4, I think possibly the iron may have something to do with it. Not really sure. Either way I like to limit the about of potentially dangerous things I dose or run.

PS Duke I mess the balance up sometimes. It's almost impossible not to at times.
 
Last edited:

jackson6745

SPS KILLER
Location
NJ
Rating - 99%
201   2   0
Wow, finally i find the MOST interesting post in years, this will cover very large subject , include how u control (Nitrate,PO4) what to feed or NOT, like u said , let said the Light , is NOT the major issue , so NO discussion about MH, T5 ,LEDs will make this post very, very interesting, list i hope,

Following.

Yes good point. keep in mind I am not saying this is the best way but?..
My nutrient control consists primarily of a big skimmer, prodibio bacteria and carbon source, and microbe-lift special blend bacteria. I also use micron filter socks and usually 2 x15% water changes monthly.
 

jackson6745

SPS KILLER
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NJ
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Jackson do u vacuum sand bed ? I'm just short of smashing my 220 with a sledge hammer no3 through the roof never had this problem b4 I'm gonna do 50 gal wc tomorrow

Matt I don't touch my sandbed. I have very good flow that doesn't allow much to settle. I also have lots of critters that eat anything that settles in the sanbed. I only have 1 1/2" of sand so there's not much room to hold nutrients anyway.


If your no3 is through the roof you have to step up the export somewhat. Possible skimmer upgrade, maybe an arid or turf scrubber, carbon source. There's so many ways to go about it.
 

duke62

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Ok so what are you doing to keep your parameters from getting to high? I tried the big water change thing to keep my no3 down but it never worked. Only way I got them down was following reefkeepings guide to vodka dosing. Took 6 to 8 weeks but finally got them down. Now that they are where I want I'm trying the bio pellets if that don't work back to vodka dosing. Same thing with po4 when I pulled gfo off line my po4 went up and changing water did nothing to combat it. So now I use half the recommended dose for rowa. Other than that have no idea how to do it without carbon dosing and gfo :(
 

duke62

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I'm just trying to keep no3 at around .10 and po4 at .04 to .06. No3 is doing well it's just drops to low sometimes now .02 so I feed a bit more when it happens. Po4 is real hard since I only use half the recommended dose of rowa.
 

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