i posted earlier about treating ich in my 220g fowlr, my regal tang was the one with ich, my flamehawk and 6 damsels were fine. i treated with greenex three times and the tang has appeared to clear up, but he is still breathing heavy. but the flamehawk has overnight developed ich and is lying on the bottom breathing heavy, he has a few large white spots (the tangs were smaller and more numerous) and his lower portion is faded. what do i do? lfs store says leave him or dip in freshwater for five minutes. i was going to do a water change today, should i? also a damsel died. i can make a quarentine tank if need be. i have spare ten gallon. should i just make a quaentine and treat him with greenex? i think he only has a couple hours.
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help! this is crazy
- Thread starter bhb1034
- Start date
Was you tang breathing this heavy before the greenex and during the ich outbreak? I've always been against medication and believe that simply just improving conditions in your tank and adding garlic will do the trick. It must be bad if a damsel died. I've never seen that before.
Don't stress out your fish anymore than you have to. Next time, give garlic a try. It won't have any effect on the fish except for their sense of smell, and it will directly target ich which die from the presence of allicin in garlic. It's completely reef safe too. I hope he pulls through.
Don't stress out your fish anymore than you have to. Next time, give garlic a try. It won't have any effect on the fish except for their sense of smell, and it will directly target ich which die from the presence of allicin in garlic. It's completely reef safe too. I hope he pulls through.
unfortunately, its probably too late, especially if the fish
is lying on its side. i had the same thing happen to my 55g
a year ago when the power went out while i was at work.
the next day my 2 jawfish were pretty bad, and i lost both
of them. if the fish will not eat i dont think there is much you can
do. a freshwater bath would probably just stress the fish out.
alot of people dont think garlic works. i use it as a preventative once
a week, i soak flake food in it. i swear by it. i lost power in an ice
storm a few weeks ago, tank dropped from 78 to 65. fish were fine.
im sure plenty of people will disagree with that, but will use it as long as i have fish.
i guess i have no idea what to tell you about your fish.
its tough watching them die when there isnt much you can do.
maybe someone else will post something.
is lying on its side. i had the same thing happen to my 55g
a year ago when the power went out while i was at work.
the next day my 2 jawfish were pretty bad, and i lost both
of them. if the fish will not eat i dont think there is much you can
do. a freshwater bath would probably just stress the fish out.
alot of people dont think garlic works. i use it as a preventative once
a week, i soak flake food in it. i swear by it. i lost power in an ice
storm a few weeks ago, tank dropped from 78 to 65. fish were fine.
im sure plenty of people will disagree with that, but will use it as long as i have fish.
i guess i have no idea what to tell you about your fish.
its tough watching them die when there isnt much you can do.
maybe someone else will post something.
These are very hardy fish which suggests that they're either not in good water conditions, or can't handle the medication.
If you can acclimate slowly to a quarantine tank with excellent water, do so. Use Garlic Extreme to fight off the ich and stimulate his hunger. Hopefully he'll eat and slowly build up its own immune system and fight back.
Do not light the tank. The important thing is to not stress him anymore than you have to.
If you can acclimate slowly to a quarantine tank with excellent water, do so. Use Garlic Extreme to fight off the ich and stimulate his hunger. Hopefully he'll eat and slowly build up its own immune system and fight back.
Do not light the tank. The important thing is to not stress him anymore than you have to.
A water change will help improve what are probably poor conditions, but that bandaid won't fix your serious problem right now. You MUST put the fish into a quarantine tank and begin treating with copper, you simply haven't the time to wait for hyposalinity to do its thing. Garlic is not a cure for ich, by any means.
Uumm...you're serious, aren't you? Please prove this claim. Allicin is proven as an antibiotic only, not an antiprotozoal, so I don't follow the reasoning. It is entirely possible to improve poor conditions in a system without using garlic at all. Also, garlic can only do so much in a system already compromised, and there is no way it will cure outbreaks of ich. It does appear via empirical evidence that it may stimulate appetite in fishes, so if they're not feeding well, inclusion of garlic with more nutritious foods may be helpful. However, I will also say that, in my opinion, you'll reap far greater benefits by utilizing quality supplements like Selcon.
I know of TWO methods that are the only methods proven to cure ich, hyposalinity and copper (the latter is used at the LBAOP). There are those who use formalin, that is a very tricky substance (and caustic), and, to the best of my own knowledge its efficacy against ich isn't as well-proven as the previous two methods. I have read of it being used, IIRC delbeek has offered up some information of how it's used at the aquarium he's associated with.
Freshwater dipping will not work if the fish remain in the infected system. What really ought to be done is to set up a hospital system, remove ALL fish to it, and let the main display lie fallow for 6-8 weeks at about 80F-82F (to speed up the lifecycle of the protozoan). Treat the fish in the hospital tank using hyposalinity or copper. Ten gallons is insufficient for these fish unless they're all quite small. If they demonstrate secondary infections (usually bacterial), my preferred antibiotic is Spectrogram, also Melafix is good. You should have these on hand anyway.
Medication for the animals we put at risk by our own inabilities is prudent care (obviously, after addressing what shortcomings in husbandry have allowed for the demonstration of disease causing pathogens). As for fish dying from ich, it's certainly been seen before, I sure have.reefnutz":2opgz564 said:I've always been against medication and believe that simply just improving conditions in your tank and adding garlic will do the trick. It must be bad if a damsel died. I've never seen that before.
reefnutz":2opgz564 said:Don't stress out your fish anymore than you have to. Next time, give garlic a try. It won't have any effect on the fish except for their sense of smell, and it will directly target ich which die from the presence of allicin in garlic. It's completely reef safe too.
Uumm...you're serious, aren't you? Please prove this claim. Allicin is proven as an antibiotic only, not an antiprotozoal, so I don't follow the reasoning. It is entirely possible to improve poor conditions in a system without using garlic at all. Also, garlic can only do so much in a system already compromised, and there is no way it will cure outbreaks of ich. It does appear via empirical evidence that it may stimulate appetite in fishes, so if they're not feeding well, inclusion of garlic with more nutritious foods may be helpful. However, I will also say that, in my opinion, you'll reap far greater benefits by utilizing quality supplements like Selcon.
I know of TWO methods that are the only methods proven to cure ich, hyposalinity and copper (the latter is used at the LBAOP). There are those who use formalin, that is a very tricky substance (and caustic), and, to the best of my own knowledge its efficacy against ich isn't as well-proven as the previous two methods. I have read of it being used, IIRC delbeek has offered up some information of how it's used at the aquarium he's associated with.
Freshwater dipping will not work if the fish remain in the infected system. What really ought to be done is to set up a hospital system, remove ALL fish to it, and let the main display lie fallow for 6-8 weeks at about 80F-82F (to speed up the lifecycle of the protozoan). Treat the fish in the hospital tank using hyposalinity or copper. Ten gallons is insufficient for these fish unless they're all quite small. If they demonstrate secondary infections (usually bacterial), my preferred antibiotic is Spectrogram, also Melafix is good. You should have these on hand anyway.
Set up the q/t, hopefully you already have enough water mixed, yes? I don't know how big your fish are, but you may need to use other watertight containers for all of them. Even if all you have is a tub, you can line it with unscented/untreated trashcan liners (they're chemically inert), you really don't want to crowd all those fish into ten gallons. Then, begin dropping the salinity with a slow drip, or, if you have to, adding water by hand. Depending on the volume of water (I'm gonna go with the ten gallon here) add about a cup every half hour to hour of pH adjusted fresh water. If your freshwater is very highly buffered, you can use baking soda to both bring the pH up, and to help buffer it.
Also, you need to address the water quality issues. Test the source water for your make up water, basically everything needs to be considered, but first let's get these fish under some sort of treatment.
Also, you need to address the water quality issues. Test the source water for your make up water, basically everything needs to be considered, but first let's get these fish under some sort of treatment.
I'm also glad he doesn't have copper.
I know that there are plenty of skeptics about garlic, but my experience with using it has been worthwhile. Sometimes, you buy stuff and you can't help but introduce some ich in your tank. Once, I had a fish covered in literally hundreds of them. He still had normal activity and ate well through the whole ordeal. I can't help but think that the garlic had something to do with it.
Here's a link to some documented effects of allicin:
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html
I know that there are plenty of skeptics about garlic, but my experience with using it has been worthwhile. Sometimes, you buy stuff and you can't help but introduce some ich in your tank. Once, I had a fish covered in literally hundreds of them. He still had normal activity and ate well through the whole ordeal. I can't help but think that the garlic had something to do with it.
Here's a link to some documented effects of allicin:
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html
I'm also glad he doesn't have copper.
I know that there are plenty of skeptics about garlic, but my experience with using it has been worthwhile. Sometimes, you buy stuff and you can't help but introduce some ich in your tank. Once, I had a fish covered in literally hundreds of them. He still had normal activity and ate well through the whole ordeal. I can't help but think that the garlic had something to do with it.
Here's a link to some documented effects of allicin:
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html[/quote]
I've only used Kent Garlic Xtreme, so I don't know how pure or effective some other brands might be.
Oops! Sorry about the double post.
I know that there are plenty of skeptics about garlic, but my experience with using it has been worthwhile. Sometimes, you buy stuff and you can't help but introduce some ich in your tank. Once, I had a fish covered in literally hundreds of them. He still had normal activity and ate well through the whole ordeal. I can't help but think that the garlic had something to do with it.
Here's a link to some documented effects of allicin:
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html[/quote]
I've only used Kent Garlic Xtreme, so I don't know how pure or effective some other brands might be.
Oops! Sorry about the double post.
I know that there are many who disagree with the use of copper. What I relay is a combination of my years of experience, which is validated, I believe, by the fact that this is the treatment protocol at one of the best public aquariums I've ever seen, The Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific.
I recommend copper over hyposalinity at this point because I get the very strong impression that his fish are on the edge.
The link, unfortunately, doesn't work, but it can also be easily found via Google or via our library here http://www.reefs.org/library
Here's the article http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html with a quote from the article
In depth reading of this article supports my assertions, though it doesn't at all directly address the use of hyposalinity or copper medications.
I recommend copper over hyposalinity at this point because I get the very strong impression that his fish are on the edge.
The link, unfortunately, doesn't work, but it can also be easily found via Google or via our library here http://www.reefs.org/library
Here's the article http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html with a quote from the article
H.Cortes":1iygqoo6 said:So roughly, garlic therapy can potentially
fend off secondary infection;
neutralize the chemicals used by the parasite to destroy host tissue;
mask host tissue, making it difficult for the parasite to recognize it;
deliver outright damage to the parasite.
If this all sounds too good to be true, there are assuredly wrinkles to the fabric woven thus far.
In depth reading of this article supports my assertions, though it doesn't at all directly address the use of hyposalinity or copper medications.
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