Kole tang question

[Anonymous]

hmmm-to answer the original q-

i think a 1" kole tang would do just fine in a 37 for quite awhile, and should get along very well w/a royal gramma

JohnD- never worry about the tang police-

(they aren't really police,are waay too self important, and for the most part, have very limited experience-usually with only a handful of fish, and as many tanks :wink:-having said that, there are many tang 'fans' that do give out very good advice as to the true and proper LONG TERM care that certain species of tang do need to truly thrive in captivity, which many hobbyists do not/can not provide)

:wink:

 

[Anonymous]

well vitz you managed to do NOTHING.

you spoke of your experience?
You spoke of the experience you think I have?

And failed to answer the question that was posted

Great job buddy, keep up the great work!

Maybe we should put your post in the meaningless post section.

not nearly as well said as nathan :lol: :wink:

 

[TheZooFarmer]

well wrasser since you like to see yourelf post please quote vitz on this answer you are speaking of.

I can not wait to see this one!

 

[WRASSER]

John was it an oversight that you failed to tell us what size tanks your tangs are currently being housed



8)

 

[Anonymous]

Zoo, my personal issues with vitz aside, I will say that he has a great deal of knowledge and experience about that which he chooses to speak on.

What has been my experience with tangs is that when you place a group of them together and you have not only disparity in genus', but such great disparity in body size, there is little likelihood of aggression towards the smallest of the bunch. Actually, this is, in my mind, the best manner in which to group them. It is when they get close in size that there may be aggression issues, and I'm one of those who believes that it very well may be possible for him to keep these tangs together for the long term. What I would worry about more is the purple and the Hippo, being placed in a new setup together, having it out. However, again, we have this disparity in genus, which very often allows these "rules" to be broken.

All that being said, I must say that my favorite tang, to this day, is still Zebrasoma scopas. Just a sublime creature (at least mine were).

 

[Steven]

Not to add to the debate :wink: but a word of caution about Kole Tangs. I've had two and both turned out to be ich magnets. I got the first one in my early, ignorant days and, after 10 days quaranteen, it happily introduced ich into my main tank. Bad story, lost some fish including the Kole, but I learned from it. My current (and thriving) Kole Tang also came down with ich, but spent 6-weeks in quaranteen. I wanted to make sure he was ich free for at least 4 weeks after the last signs of the parasites. It worked. He's been in the tank (120 g) for about 6-months now, getting along well with my Yellow Tang and Orange Shoulder Tang.

 

[Anonymous]

the only parasite i've really had to deal with, as far as visible outbreaks are concerned, on tangs, while recieving/holding many in a store setting-is the 'black spot/black ich' parasite-easily treated w/ copper/formalin

never had a problem w/koles

i've seen purple tangs in clients' tanks get coated w/cysts, and just 'shake off' the 'infection'

had a small (2-3") hippo in a 75 reef (along w/a yellow) that would get a few spots on it, a coupla' times/yr. for a few yrs

a typical months worth of tangs coming into the store i just managed would include about 30 yellows,15-20 hippos(various sizes) about 7 koles, 2-3 scopas, 5 powder blues, 5-10 nasos, a few olive/orange shoulders,5 purples, and about 5 clowns

we kept Cu in the system at all times at 0.15 ppm, and i treated w/formalin for the whole system after each new shipment(formalin breaks down rather quickly) never saw one spot of ich on any of the tangs, or on any of our other fish, for that matter.

in fact, it seems the only disease issue i really had to deal w/, as of late, was brooklynella, on w/c clowns

alot of the tangs hang around the store for a long time, sometimes, too ( by retail standards, anyway :wink

i think that most tangs are abit more 'susceptible' to ich, due to their extremely fine scales-'my theory' is that the smaller, possibly more numerous scales, and the resulting increase in spaces between them, provide more attachment sites for the burrowing/encysting stage of the parasite.

though i'd hardly call a kole a 'magnet' over other tang species :wink:

seems like i've dealt w/customers who have issues w/hippos, more than other species, over the yrs


hth

 

[JohnD]

Thanks everyone for all of your input. I was surprised at all of the back and forth comments. I never intended to start a hornet's nest, but I guess I did.

I am amazed at all of the posts this question has received in 24 hours.

Zoo - I never mentioned all of the tank sizes involved. It was never plannned that way. Deception was never part of my game plan. If you will allow me the liberty, I will tell you the full details.

I bought a 55 gallon tank in the summer of 1990. After cycling and on advice of an employee of the LFS, I got a 2 inch hippo tang around October/November of 1990. "LeRoy" grew by eating a variety of frozen, dried, and fresh food. I have fed him blanced broccoli, blanced string beans, oranges, Seaweed Selects, nori, Formula 1, Formula 2, VHP and Spirulina formula. I have a titanium grounding probe in his tank and I can assure you that he does not have LLE.

After 5 years, I got LeRoy a 75 gallon tank. He has continued to thrive and I added a tomato clown to the 75. They are doing very well.

With the 55 gallon tank empty, I added a small - 1 inch purple tang to it 2 years ago. "Pete" has doubled in size and is around 2 inches from nose to base of tail. This tang has also been given a variety of foods and has a titanium ground probe in the tank. Zoo - I can assure you, neither tang has LLE.

Anyway, I realized about 1 year ago that both tangs have outgrown their tanks, so I got myself a second job. With the extra money I purchased a 135 gallon Oceanic. It is in my basement and is ready for action. I have also contracted with an electrician to upgrade my service and run 2 lines to where the new tank is. After all, I want to do this right.

In closing, the questions about the 37 and 135 were asked in good faith. I am sorry if some thought I was witholding information. That was never my intension and I apologize if I offended anybody. One reason I always come to this board is because of the concern I have for my tank creatures.

In closing, thanks again for ALL of the comments and if anybody has more insights to offer, please feel free.

JohnD

 

[Anonymous]

I think "LeRoy" is a cool name for a fish (if you're into naming your fish).

I've been seeing TONS more queries on WWM regarding outbreaks of Brooklynellosis (on captive bred as well as wild caught). During this summer it was furunculosis (fought a losing battle at home here, though I've managed to save three of the five koi who were demonstrating some nasty ulcers).

 

[TheZooFarmer]

John I am glad to hear your fish are healthy and have lived for such a long time. Keep in mind that stray current is only one of the factors leading to LLE. Poor water quality is the main source for LLE.

Now I was doing some research and found this post you have made:

Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:58 pm Post subject: Got a new Purple tang

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a mutant purple tang. He got his @ss beat when I added him to my FO, so I put him into another tank. He was so pyschologically tramatized by this ordeal that he is now a wimp.

Yes, he eats, but he runs for shelter ebvery time I come to the tank.

Still, one beautiful fish.


Now what makes you think that this occurence that you have witnessed first hand will not happen again with the purple tang? What makes you think the kole tang will not get his "@ss beat" either?

Do you really want to risk any of your fish?

 

[danmhippo]

Zoo, the purple thrived for 2 years under his care, didn't it? I think John has demonstrated his ability to care for the tangs, and are well aware of possible outcomes, that's why he is up here to share his experiences and hopefully find other's perspective in what he is planning on doing.

I play the role of tang police too, but it depends on the circumstances. In John's case, I believe he will be doing a great job of watching over the 1" kole...(John, don't let us down......you hear?). I normally are harsher to new to the hobby when they are planning or already keeping multiple tangs of similar body shape and target food in sub average tanks.

 

[danmhippo]

Zoo, it would be nicer if tang police simply state their point and leave it at that. Your stance is well understood by your 3rd post. There is no point keep hashing it. Belive me, if anyone is determined to get a powderblue into their 20G tank, there is no way you could stop him not to get it.

Don't make tang police look that bad, really, we are not bad guys (a.k.a jerks)......

 

[TheZooFarmer]

hippo I have not and will not consider myself a tang policeman. I am a reef policeman if anything. And I was just bringing up the point that this poster has already had a horrible experience with the situation he is posing to the board.

Me personal experience leads me to belive that all tangs show aggression when they are large. This is regardless of tank size and how long they are housed with their tankmates. I have seen this with yellows, purples, sailfins, blues, convicts, clowns, sohals, chevrons, and others. Heck I could not even keep 2 1" yellows in a 60 gallon cube (LFS fish system) for 30 minutes.

I wish johnd the best but I would not put those 3 tangs together on a bet. No way no how.

 

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that stray current is only one of the factors leading to LLE.

I have never seen any real evidence that HLLE is caused by stray voltage, or will be miraculously cleared up by adding a grounding probe to a system. The causative factor seems to be stress, plain and simple. I've seen tangs develop HLLE in tanks with grounding probes, and completely reverse the condition in tanks without one.

 

[WRASSER]

good morning everyone,730am,



zoo, in my 150 i had put together a purple, hippo, and a sailfin they lived quite nice togather. yes, every now and then the purple and sailfin would bump tails, but all in all they got along. i also had a bi-color angle, coral bueaty angle, a yellow wrasse, a dragon wrasse, a bi-color dottyback, 2 chaulk bass, and a neon goby. ( my under-water T.V.) everyone got along very well. now i would believe that you would say NO WAY, i wouldn't do that, it wont work, everyone will fight, someone will kill someone, what ever you would say in that effect. the reason i say anything is possible is for this reason. it dose work and i enjoy the works. everyone out there has done something write, that someone else has said it wont work. and it happens every-day. all i want to do is show you that with salt water it is possible. with the write conditions, and if you dont want to accept that, thats ok with me, because that is who you are. as people have said before if they want to buy a fish and put it somewhere they are going to do it.
now your advice, brutal as it may be, is great. why, because it helps us look at the pros and CONS. and it helps me think about whats going on.
it's just the way you word it that could use some polish. thats all.


good luck,



wrasser 8)

 

[TheZooFarmer]

wrasser I will try and explain it for the 100th time.

large hippo tang over 13 years old
medium purple tang over 3 years old
baby kole tang

3 different fish with 3 different tank requirements and 3 different levels of aggression. Put them all together at once, whether it be with in a week or 6 months=problems.

For you to say what fish you have and that it works is totally useless information. When did you add these fish and how large were they when you added them?

PERFECT EXAMPLE:

You can mix puppies with kittens all day long when they are young. Even pit bulls, rottweilers, sheperds, it doesn't matter for the most part. Now just because that works does it mean you should add full grown pit bulls, rottweilers, and sheperds with cats? What are the odds of the cats making it then?

Meanwhile you had made statement of instant? And I have asked repeatedly how much instinct does a fish have after being in captivity its entire most all of its life?

Everyone likes to come on this board and talk about their setup. I rarely do this. I do not need to make myself feel important because I have a large tank. I do not need to make myself feel important because I am fortunate enough to afford this hobby. Everyone wants to be the exception. I will never be the exception because I will not risk a single animal's life. wrasser you made the statement that I kill fish. Just because you kill fish doesn't mean I kill fish. The last fish I lost to anything other then what I consider natural causes was a baby chevron that died because I had a temp spike due to a faulty heater and that was around 2 years ago.

For you to tell someone that since it works for you that it will work for them is a naive statement. This is FACT because there is an exemption to everything. When I post advice it is 99% of the time something I have never done, but something I have observed, or read about more then once.

 

[WRASSER]

zoo,


i didn't post to attack you or even argue with you just to show you some polish, as have others.
the problem is you are just as naive, you're just toooo smart to see it :wink:

good luck,



wrasser 8)

 

[dizzy]

Me personal experience leads me to belive that all tangs show aggression when they are large. This is regardless of tank size and how long they are housed with their tankmates. I have seen this with yellows, purples, sailfins, blues, convicts, clowns, sohals, chevrons, and others. Heck I could not even keep 2 1" yellows in a 60 gallon cube (LFS fish system) for 30 minutes.

I'm not looking to kick zoofarmer while he's down, but I have a somewhat different opinion of tangs after keeping them for over 19-years as a hobbyist and retailer. Putting two yellow tangs together almost never works. Three or more and it is usually ok. We often house different tang species together in the sell tanks as it makes feeding nori a little less wasteful. Sometimes we have to split the tangs if they are not getting along, but quite often they tolerate each other very well. I also have four different display tanks that I keep multiple tangs in. I have a yellow and a sailfin in a 100-gallon. A purple and a Desjardini in a 160. A Chevron and an orange shoulder in a 220. A purple, a hippo, a blonde Naso, and a yellow in a 300. I also have a black tang in a 100 gallon with a colony of five true perculas. IME problems between tangs are almost always limited to when when the fish are first put together. I agree with Seamaiden that similar size and shapes are most likely to fight at first. Sometimes you have to remove a tang that is being attacked, but if it can stay in the tank a day or so it usually is on its way to being accepted. I've had over half of my tangs for 7-8 years and most are decent size adults now. I have not noticed any increased aggression as they have grown. IME the different tang species have actually grown to enjoy each others company. You should see how the purple, yellow, hippo, and blonde naso all swim around together in the 300-gallon cylinder tank. They rarely ever even display toward each other.

I don't want to encourage people to keep tangs in tanks that are too small, but we need to realize that there are many ways to have success in this hobby. I liked danmhippo's last post a lot. Let's all get down off our soap boxes and just share honest accounts of our experiences, and we can all learn a lot more. Please get a tank that is large enough for your tangs to be comfortable in, and if you screw up and put two fish together that are obviously not going to work it out, then get one or the other out before it is seriously harmed. A little fin nipping will grow back if the terrorizing ends, but constant hounding can be fatal. I have found that if a fish is hanging out up in corner it is best to go ahead and remove it to a healing tank. A little common sense will go a long way in determining if an introduction attempt should be terminated.

Edited to add picture of Four amigos.

 

[Len]

ok we all know I am a jerk

I am glad we got that out of the way!

Herein lies the problem. I can't allow you to continue to be an admitted "jerk." Please make an honest attempt to be more civil and respectful, or you will no longer be posting with us. We've had this same problem with your previous alias, and I'm hoping you can prevent a repeat of history.

As I've said before, it's not your content that we have problems with. It's your delivery. No one is silencing your opinions, but we are demanding you reform the way you convey them. As distasteful a personality as it is, you can be as arrogant as you want for all I care, but you must be less hostile, less disrespectul, and less deragatory to your fellow members.

 

[dizzy]

My Chevron and Hippo really get along great. Here my 5" Chevron can be seen kissing the 5.5" Hippo. :wink: I actually failed to mention the hippo earlier as it was traded in a couple of months ago. It came out of a 29-gallon tank. I was truly amazed a blue tang that size could look so good coming out of a tank that size, but it did.