DENITRATOR?
- Thread starter WRASSER
- Start date
From what I have read the pros and cons are very similiar to anaerobic sand bed operation. After all both use anaerobic/anoxic bacteria to reduce nitrates.WRASSER":2mvvdezl said:
To me one of the biggest cons is that it is another peice of equiment that must be paid for, setup, adjusted, and provides various possibilities of failures. But then I prefer to use plant life to consume the nitrates anyway.
refugiums are one way for the plant life to work. But plant life like corraline or turf algae on live rocks, glass, sand, etc also consume nitrates.
The problem with denitrators from what I understand is maintaining the proper anaerobic environment. Obviosuly too much flow and the environment has too much oxygen killing the bacteria and interrupting the nitrate conversion. And one of the by products when that happens is ammonia which then feeds the nitrogen cycle. Just as can happen with DSB's. Not a very stable situation.
Plant life on the other hand consumes ammonia directly should there be a spike for whatever reason. Much more stable situation. Plus when the aerobic bacteria catches up with the ammonia or the spike goes away, the plant life resumes nitrate consumption.
JMHO.
The problem with denitrators from what I understand is maintaining the proper anaerobic environment. Obviosuly too much flow and the environment has too much oxygen killing the bacteria and interrupting the nitrate conversion. And one of the by products when that happens is ammonia which then feeds the nitrogen cycle. Just as can happen with DSB's. Not a very stable situation.
Plant life on the other hand consumes ammonia directly should there be a spike for whatever reason. Much more stable situation. Plus when the aerobic bacteria catches up with the ammonia or the spike goes away, the plant life resumes nitrate consumption.
JMHO.
Guy":s4mb3l5l said:
reference: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
and
And this pdf further specifies the reverse process from above:
http://www.marineland.com/seascope/ss2003_issue1.pdf
so now you have heard of anaerobic process resulting in ammonia production. As I stated before, hardly a stable operation.
i'd tend to agree with bob's assessment of denitrators. (arrgh!) i've built and run three such units over the years but found them more trouble than they're worth. ymmv.
i agree, drip denitrators (seems like that's the kind he's talking about) are very fickle units. even once you get the drip rate correct, the drip rate erodes over time as bacteria (anaerobic and aerobic-because both exist in those devices) tend to clog up the flow, i.e. mulm. cleaning it and maintaining is a real pita imho.
otoh, i dislike bob's ubiquitous push on plant filtration as the "answer" too. "plants" also require maintenance, i.e. pruning and vigilent watch (see sexual/sporation comment). there's nothing fully automatic in this hobby, no silver bullets.
the hobby requires careful watch over each individual/unique system. we're talking about a very delicate ecosystem (reefs) in a small glass/plastic box. use of anything/everything to maintain it is a good thing. to deny the proper/effective tools "just because" seems foolish imo.
while i would definitely recommend protein skimmers and other such "voodoo equipment" that bob dislikes; however, i do agree with him that denitrators (ime) are more trouble than they're worth. ymmv.
better to rely on LR/LS, skimmers, waterchanges (i dislike wc's like bob tho but do not recommend that approach to others, EVER), filters, and just careful overall monitoring of the setup as approaches to reefing. hth
i agree, drip denitrators (seems like that's the kind he's talking about) are very fickle units. even once you get the drip rate correct, the drip rate erodes over time as bacteria (anaerobic and aerobic-because both exist in those devices) tend to clog up the flow, i.e. mulm. cleaning it and maintaining is a real pita imho.
otoh, i dislike bob's ubiquitous push on plant filtration as the "answer" too. "plants" also require maintenance, i.e. pruning and vigilent watch (see sexual/sporation comment). there's nothing fully automatic in this hobby, no silver bullets.
the hobby requires careful watch over each individual/unique system. we're talking about a very delicate ecosystem (reefs) in a small glass/plastic box. use of anything/everything to maintain it is a good thing. to deny the proper/effective tools "just because" seems foolish imo.
while i would definitely recommend protein skimmers and other such "voodoo equipment" that bob dislikes; however, i do agree with him that denitrators (ime) are more trouble than they're worth. ymmv.
better to rely on LR/LS, skimmers, waterchanges (i dislike wc's like bob tho but do not recommend that approach to others, EVER), filters, and just careful overall monitoring of the setup as approaches to reefing. hth
Thanks guys, i picked up a denitator for under two bills, it is running now and pretty good. i have it up to 12hrs. a cycle, but im going to need to get it to 8 hr cycle, the thing is i dont know if this is what i want. i am thinking of taking it down and maybe putting up a 55gal. refugium. so i am a little confused about what i am doing.
My problem is i like to many differnt fish, and now that i have those fish the thought of giving them back just doesnt fly to well. So im stuck wiyh decieding on a denitrator or refugium.
thanks for all your feed back.
My problem is i like to many differnt fish, and now that i have those fish the thought of giving them back just doesnt fly to well. So im stuck wiyh decieding on a denitrator or refugium.
thanks for all your feed back.
depends on your rate of nitrates produced.
you'll have to monitor the effluent every week to check the drip rate hasn't slowed down too much or sped too much. either is not good. cleaning too much of it destroys the bacteria and too little can cause starvation/suffocation of the bacteria or promote hydrogen sulfide.
there is no hard-fast rule for rate of drip because every denitrator is different in size and shape, which in turn affects surface area available for the denitrating bacteria. orifice size, residence time, length, medium, etc. are all factors affecting a denitrator's effectiveness.
on top of that, it takes around 2~4 weeks for the denitrator to even start being effective (time for the denitrating bacteria to colonize).
but they do work. you just have to balance all that. hth
you'll have to monitor the effluent every week to check the drip rate hasn't slowed down too much or sped too much. either is not good. cleaning too much of it destroys the bacteria and too little can cause starvation/suffocation of the bacteria or promote hydrogen sulfide.
there is no hard-fast rule for rate of drip because every denitrator is different in size and shape, which in turn affects surface area available for the denitrating bacteria. orifice size, residence time, length, medium, etc. are all factors affecting a denitrator's effectiveness.
on top of that, it takes around 2~4 weeks for the denitrator to even start being effective (time for the denitrating bacteria to colonize).
but they do work. you just have to balance all that. hth
OK, Well it has been more than two weeks. I am trying to get it to run on an eight hour shift, so i can get at least 15 gal. change out a day. How many seconds should be between each drip? ( i know it will be about ) and should i clean the tubing daily, weekly, monthly? I mean, do you need the bacteria in the tube, too? :?
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